Dune is a very strange book. I realize just how little I remember it, though it’s been at least 20 years since my first read-through. It’s almost like reading it for the first time, but not quite. I remember little bits as I go along.
I’m about 72% of the way finished now according to my Kindle. Some quick observations and then the floor is yours, dearest readers.
Herbert has a peculiar tendency to skip the action. Almost the entire invasion of Arrakis is relayed via exposition rather than action. We learn about what happened after it’s happened from Thufir Hawat and Gurney Halleck and so forth. When the Sardaukar catch up with Paul, Jessica, Duncan Idaho and Kynes the fighting all takes place “off screen” as it were. Hawat’s capture includes him getting knocked out before the fighting breaks out. But not all fight scenes are like this. Paul and Jessica’s escape from the 'thopter is action-packed. So is the arena scene with Feyd-Rautha and the melees when Paul first meets up with Stilgar’s Fremen. No big battle scenes at all. The movie will almost certainly relish in filling in the details.
The perspective is not at all what I’m used to, either, at least not in fantasy and sci-fi. Herbert uses a third-person omniscient perspective, leaping freely between characters’ internal thoughts and points-of-view. Compare this to something like Game Of Thrones or The Expanse in which POV characters change each chapter. It really does change the way a story is told, allowing you access to different points of view much more rapidly. At the same time, you never get quite as much of any character’s experience since each chapter might be chopped up into three or four different perspectives (or more!)
I do see how this novel has influenced genre fiction quite clearly now. GRRM was clearly influenced by Dune. People always reference Tolkien when they talk about Martin’s work, but he’s much more of a Herbertian if you ask me. The politics and scheming, the Great Houses all vying for control, the skullduggery and treachery and all the. Duke Leto is basically Ned Stark.
I don’t know how to feel about Baron Harkonnen. He’s clever and grotesque, but also falls prey to some tired old tropes—I’m not sure I need him to be grotesquely fat and constantly lusting after young boys in order for him to be an effective villain. Returning to Martin’s work, Tywin Lannister managed to be a terrific antagonist without being gross in every other way. You could still respect Tywin on some level, while also despising him for his ruthlessness. The Baron feels a bit too cartoonish.
I want to play a baliset. I also want to watch the 1984 Dune after I’ve watched the new one, if only because Patrick Stewart plays Gurney Halleck:
What are your thoughts on Dune so far? Leave a comment, have a discussion!
P.S. I’ve ben traveling in the great state of Washington. Updates on the travels soon, but this is why things have been a little slow around here. I am currently in Forks, WA, the setting for the Twilight books and films and the rainiest city in the contiguous United States. We’re headed to the rainforest later today. It’s so green and lush here—quite a stark contrast to Arizona. I feel rather like a Fremen of Arrakis visiting Caladan at the moment!
1. A LOT of authors at that time (Asimov most notably) cribbed ideas from "The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire" when wanting to write their own empires in decline, and one of the theses in that book was that decadence in the upper class of the Roman Empire led to political instability, as the nobility became increasingly disinterested in making sure the Empire worked and more interested in throwing lavish parties (I am not claiming this is the historical truth, only that this is what Gibbon asserted at the time). In the same way that a fictional nation deliberately paralleling the USSR might depict a government awash in inefficient and hostile bureaucracy gatekeeping basic needs, arrests and imprisonment for a perceived lack of ideological commitment, and pervasive propaganda, Harkonnen's buggery and obesity was likely meant as a shorthand to allow the educated reader to quickly understand the state of the Empire at large.
2. Frankly, on a personal level, Harkonnen's irredeemable nature gives a touch of realism to the story. Perhaps I'm spoiled for choice these days, but sometimes I get tired of every villain being either a misunderstood victim of larger social forces, a fallen would-be or could-have-been hero, or an outright antivillain. Sometimes you just want a bastard or total monster whose violent end you can cheer for without any real remorse.
Just reread all 6 books, and there's just nothing like it. It's philosophy in dense spades, and a peculiar aspect of the omniscient storytelling is that it does it from the pov of the person it jumps into, but 100% subjectively, meaning that the person being followed for that paragraph does not explain WHY they are thinking what they are thinking, effectively often making their thoughts and actions a mystery to be unravelled later. This gets a lot heavier in the later books, where the characters refers to their own plans without explaining them, but leaving the reader to wonder what the hell they are thinking about. That's definitely not for everyone, but for me it always kept me interested and wondering :)
The first time i read the novel it was in a PDF, i lost the main battle in a scroll movement... it turned out there was no big battle :P
I was wondering the other day, why does Herbert let me know who is the traitor? Well, you could not have every person thoughts if he didn't tell you. Oh, the silent mind is the one!
Herbert skip things that are not interesting to him. I love the way he don't put details in some stuff, like the later no-ships. but give you hints to stimulate your imagination.
Dune and ASOIF are novels, the Lord of the ring is an epic tale. One is about characters, in the other the characters are nothing more than pieces. That might be the biggest difference.
One thing that surprised me a lot is how manipulative was also the Artreides House. The propaganda people, the use of natives. No that they have much choice.
I’ve read the book a bunch. I agree that there’s a lot of Dune in ASOIAF - they’re both very occupied with politics, in a way Tolkien never was.
I’ll read it again every few years. One thing I’m always struck by is how uninteresting the Fremen are. I just can’t take reading their songs. Same shit in Tolkien. That was a bullet GRRM dodged.
I forget what the exact quote is, but it’s something like “the goal of writing is to create a world real enough to be destroyed”. Arthur C Clarke maybe? Anyway: it’s what Herbert did in Dune in spades. I really believe in the universe he created.
Like The Axis of Awesome sing in their timelessly classic song, I have read the book. But I only watched the movie coz of Sting being in it. Other than that, the film was a big ol’ mess.
RE: Harkonnen:
1. A LOT of authors at that time (Asimov most notably) cribbed ideas from "The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire" when wanting to write their own empires in decline, and one of the theses in that book was that decadence in the upper class of the Roman Empire led to political instability, as the nobility became increasingly disinterested in making sure the Empire worked and more interested in throwing lavish parties (I am not claiming this is the historical truth, only that this is what Gibbon asserted at the time). In the same way that a fictional nation deliberately paralleling the USSR might depict a government awash in inefficient and hostile bureaucracy gatekeeping basic needs, arrests and imprisonment for a perceived lack of ideological commitment, and pervasive propaganda, Harkonnen's buggery and obesity was likely meant as a shorthand to allow the educated reader to quickly understand the state of the Empire at large.
2. Frankly, on a personal level, Harkonnen's irredeemable nature gives a touch of realism to the story. Perhaps I'm spoiled for choice these days, but sometimes I get tired of every villain being either a misunderstood victim of larger social forces, a fallen would-be or could-have-been hero, or an outright antivillain. Sometimes you just want a bastard or total monster whose violent end you can cheer for without any real remorse.
Just reread all 6 books, and there's just nothing like it. It's philosophy in dense spades, and a peculiar aspect of the omniscient storytelling is that it does it from the pov of the person it jumps into, but 100% subjectively, meaning that the person being followed for that paragraph does not explain WHY they are thinking what they are thinking, effectively often making their thoughts and actions a mystery to be unravelled later. This gets a lot heavier in the later books, where the characters refers to their own plans without explaining them, but leaving the reader to wonder what the hell they are thinking about. That's definitely not for everyone, but for me it always kept me interested and wondering :)
Some thoughts:
The first time i read the novel it was in a PDF, i lost the main battle in a scroll movement... it turned out there was no big battle :P
I was wondering the other day, why does Herbert let me know who is the traitor? Well, you could not have every person thoughts if he didn't tell you. Oh, the silent mind is the one!
Herbert skip things that are not interesting to him. I love the way he don't put details in some stuff, like the later no-ships. but give you hints to stimulate your imagination.
Dune and ASOIF are novels, the Lord of the ring is an epic tale. One is about characters, in the other the characters are nothing more than pieces. That might be the biggest difference.
One thing that surprised me a lot is how manipulative was also the Artreides House. The propaganda people, the use of natives. No that they have much choice.
I’ve read the book a bunch. I agree that there’s a lot of Dune in ASOIAF - they’re both very occupied with politics, in a way Tolkien never was.
I’ll read it again every few years. One thing I’m always struck by is how uninteresting the Fremen are. I just can’t take reading their songs. Same shit in Tolkien. That was a bullet GRRM dodged.
I forget what the exact quote is, but it’s something like “the goal of writing is to create a world real enough to be destroyed”. Arthur C Clarke maybe? Anyway: it’s what Herbert did in Dune in spades. I really believe in the universe he created.
The rest of the Dune books? Yikes
Like The Axis of Awesome sing in their timelessly classic song, I have read the book. But I only watched the movie coz of Sting being in it. Other than that, the film was a big ol’ mess.